Marching On: A Q&A With Josh Fox

Documentary filmmaker Josh Fox broke onto the scene in 2010 with the Oscar-nominated film Gasland, a damning portrait of high-volume hydraulic fracturing. Fox, who last year released a sequel, Gasland 2, has become a hero to foes of hydrofracking, the controversial method of drilling for natural gas, while drawing the ire of the energy industry.

After an anti-fracking rally outside President Barack Obama’s speech at the Clinton Global Initiative this month, Fox spoke with City & State Albany Bureau Chief Jon Lentz about the fracking battle in New York, Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s re-election bid and the criticism of his documentaries. The following interview has been edited for space and clarity.

City & State: Environmental issues have been front and center lately, with the United Nations Climate Summit taking place in New York City this month, and the People’s Climate March in Manhattan, which you attended. What was it like?
Josh Fox: It was incredible to see hundreds of thousands of people marching on the climate, including a huge contingent of fracking activists as well. It was really evidence of how widespread and how diverse and how passionate the movement has become. There was a special section of fracktivists in the march that was several blocks long, but throughout the entire march you had anti-fracking signs and warnings to Gov. Cuomo to make sure that he bans fracking and “Fracking = Climate Change”—because that’s what it is. When we’re talking about fracking, we’re talking about oil and new natural gas. What we know now is that fracked gas is the worst possible fuel that has been developed with respect to climate change, especially if that fracked gas is going toward liquefied natural gas ports. This has one of the highest emissions profiles of any fuel that we have. We’re talking about carbon dioxide, but we’re also talking about methane, the raw natural gas that leaks out of the pipelines, out of the well pads, out of the delivery systems, out of the LNG terminals. That contributes to overall greenhouse gas emissions, which makes it the worst fuel source that you can develop, because methane is a hundred times more powerful than CO2 is in the atmosphere. Currently President Obama and Hillary Clinton are not paying attention to this fact. It’s incredibly ironic, because you have two people campaigning for science on climate, but they’re completely ignoring the science on fracking.

C&S: You just protested outside a speech by President Obama.
JF: We’re trying to get the attention of Cuomo and Clinton and Obama and our Democratic leadership, who thus far is saying great things about climate, but they’re not paying attention to the science on fracking and the science on methane leakage. This is a disastrous policy. So these rallies are calling on President Obama to do something that he’s called upon us to do, which is change and act. The grassroots is saying to President Obama, “You must act on fracking, you must act on climate change, and the only way you can have a coherent policy on the climate is to make sure that you’re not endorsing, promoting or spreading fracking.” We can run our whole world and our country on renewables. That is the only way to counter climate change, the only way to truly reduce all greenhouse gases. Carbon, of course, is most important greenhouse gas. Methane, however, is the second-most important greenhouse gas. The policy currently is to switch from coal to gas en masse—that’s a disastrous policy when it comes to talking about the climate.

C&S: Critics raise issues with these claims, arguing that natural gas is cleaner and that your films are full of distortions and misleading assertions. How do you respond to that?
JF: Those criticisms are predominantly from the fossil fuel industry. Distortions and the misinformation campaigns are from the fossil fuel industry. These are the same people who said that fracked gas was cleaner than coal. It’s not true, and we know it. They said it’s better for the climate than coal, and we know it’s not true. They say there is no such thing as groundwater contamination from fracking, not one case. Well, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection just released hundreds of cases that showed that drilling was responsible for water contamination. My films exposed the truth of what is happening all across the United States with respect to water contamination, a rampant air pollution situation, destruction of communities, destabilization of local democracies through the influence of these companies, destabilization of our democracy as a whole! We’re talking about the natural gas industry: They’re exempt from the Safe Drinking Water Act! They got that exemption because they spent $747 million lobbying Congress. They spent $150 million in the last election. If natural gas is so clean, how come they have spent three-quarters of a billion dollars getting exempt from the primary protection for groundwater? They attacked Gasland because Gasland got 50 million eyeballs. That’s been seen on HBO in the United States and was playing in 32 countries worldwide, and the second one is on track to do the same thing. The second one is nominated for a research Emmy from the news and documentary division. These films are backed up, vetted, supported by reports and peer-reviewed scientific papers. It’s the same refrain that we had on climate from the fossil fuel industry, where they say, “No, there’s no such thing as climate change.” This creates doubt, and this kind of doubt-based campaign delays policy-making and it delays decisions. It creates the impression that there is debate within the scientific community.

C&S: In New York, thousands of residents raised concerns about hydrofracking, which has been on hold and under review for years. Is that a success?
JF: I think it’s a hugely influential place. Six years ago when they said to us, “You’ll never stop this train,” we didn’t believe. We said, “No way, we’re not going to have fracking in New York State. We’re not going to have fracking in the Delaware River basin.” Six years later that’s still true, and we’ve won that battle. In New York, the activism here, specifically around the watershed, you saw that influence go worldwide. There’s a ban on fracking in France. There’s a ban on fracking in Germany, in Italy, the Netherlands, in South Africa and parts of Australia. There are many local bans via referendum in Colorado, an oil- and gas-producing state. You have ban movements in California and Pennsylvania. But New York State, no question, is one of the places that is really leading the charge. You had 204,000 people submit comments on the Department of Environmental Conservation’s environmental impact statement. That’s insane. The previous record was a thousand. That’s amazing organizing. This is the primary fight for environmental justice in New York State, and people know it. You look at the voting turnout for Zephyr Teachout, who was at 35 percent—that looks like a fracking mass to me. So it’s time for Gov. Cuomo to pay attention to the science on this.

C&S: Cuomo’s opponent, Republican Westchester County Executive Rob Astorino, supports fracking, while Cuomo has yet to come down on one side or the other. How will this affect the governor’s race this fall?
JF: If Cuomo is smart, he’ll pay attention to what just happened. The citizens are calling on him to listen to the science. People are freaked out. When fracking comes to your town, this is one of the most terrifying possibilities you can face. The fact that property values will go down, the fact that you’ll be living in an industrialized nightmare of a landscape, the fact that you could have contaminated groundwater and air pollution—these are things that right now Gov. Cuomo has to stand up for New Yorkers and say, “This isn’t coming here.” If he continues to ignore this, I think he does this at great possible harm.

C&S: What’s next for you?
JF: One project we’re focusing right now is Solutions Grassroots, and the web site is solutionsgrassroots.com. It’s a touring music and theater and film event that brings renewable energy solutions directly to the people. I’m also working on a film on climate change, which is a full-length feature documentary that will be out in 2015 or 2016.